Retherming Brisket in CVap®

retherming brisket

Brisket. Is there a better product to cook to celebrate May’s National BBQ Month? Brisket is incredibly popular, with a 23% increase in menus over the last decade. Whether you’re preparing these babies in-house, or are opting for commercially produced products, CVap ovens are great for retherming brisket without sacrificing quality.

retherming brisket
retherming brisket

To test the full range of products, we rethermed two brisket types. The first was a fully cooked, house-smoked, whole unsliced brisket. The other was commercially produced Hormel sliced brisket. Notably, both briskets were whole, smoked, and fully cooked. But the commercial product was smaller, roughly seven pounds. Additionally, it came presliced. On the other hand, the homemade product is unsliced and was about 14 pounds. We set them up in the same CHV7-05UV oven, with the same program: Vapor 170°F/Air 200°F. We wrapped both briskets in foil and placed them into the preheated oven.

Retherming Brisket - The Same, But Different

Although these were both whole briskets, they fell under different Food Code 3-403.11(C) requirements. The code requires that rethermed proteins hit their required safe temperature in two hours or less

Because the Hormel brisket was a commercially produced product, the code requires it to reach the minimally safe temperature of 135°F. Our CVap oven easily hit the mark. The Hormel brisket reached safe temp in a little under two hours. Clearly, the lower retherming temperature requirement, coupled with CVap’s high humidity retherming program, and the added ingredients (like phosphate) helped keep this pre-sliced brisket perfectly moist.

However, the food code requirements for previously cooked homemade brisket are more stringent. Code dictates that it must reach a minimum safe temperature of 165°F for 15 seconds. Our initial test reveal that this much larger brisket missed the mark on cook time. Unsurprisingly, this brisket, being twice as large as the Hormel product, took nearly twice as long to hit 165°F in the thickest part of the roast, between the point and flat. But no test is a failure, even if the results are not what we wanted. We headed back to the drawing board.

The solution was simple. We separated the whole brisket into the point and flat and wrapped them separately. Consequently, the two smaller cuts reached the required temperature within the two-hour limit. Although we didn’t test it, you could probably optimize the program by either decreasing the vapor and air temperatures or minimizing the temperature differential between the two (for example, Vapor 180°F/Air 190°F, or Vapor 190°F/Air 200°F).

Why Retherm?

What’s the practicality of retherming briskets instead of serving scratch cooked? Time. Briskets are a classic example of a protein you must cook low and slow to achieve the best results. Unless you can perfectly predict how much your operation needs on a given day (and plan accordingly), it is impractical to cook on-demand. But cooking ahead of time and properly refrigerating reduces the time it takes to retherm and serve. Think of it as a form of staging. Ultimately, anything that helps you serve faster and turn tables is beneficial.

Part Four: Andy Husbands- Advice for Beginners

Andy Husbands' restaurant is a barbecue lover's dream

Read all parts in this series: Part One | Part Two | Part Three

Part Four of Our Continuing Interview with Barbecue Pitmaster Chef Andy Husbands

Andy Husbands, if you were encouraging someone to start a restaurant, what would you tell them?

Use professionals. That is a business planner, an architect, a lawyer, and not your cousin. Use somebody who actually writes restaurant leases. Someone who actually designs restaurants. I know that your friend’s sister is really good at designing, but if she hasn’t designed a restaurant before, you don’t want her making mistakes on your dime.

Money Costs Money

The one thing you have to understand about opening a restaurant, at least in my scenario, is every dollar I spend costs me $1.25. You’ve got to pay that money back, unless it’s your money.

Every dollar you spend is going to cost you something. So you have to be very judicious on what you spend your money on. That’s part one. Part two is don’t spend any money. If it was me, and I was redoing it, starting today, I would find myself a pizza place that was going out of business. And try to keep the equipment they have. I would spend the bare minimum. And I would reinvest. Now I know that people dream of having a fancy restaurant. I get it. And they want to spend two million dollars. I guess that’s just not my path right now. But, you know, it’s hard. People think that everyone’s going to love it. The reality is, that’s not true. Not everyone’s gonna love it. Sorry. I would just be cautious.

 

Talk about that a little more. I try to tell people, if you go into this thinking you’re the best cook in the world and everybody’s going to love your food, you just don’t understand people. Our tastes are as diverse as our skin colors. How do you deal with the fact that everybody might not like your barbecue?

Ha ha, there are lots of people who don’t like my barbecue. One time I was called to a table, and they were like “did you guys make these collards? They taste canned. They’re awful.” And I was like “okay, let me get you something else.” I gave them something else. I go to the next table. They were like “did you make these collards? They’re the best collards we’ve ever had.” It’s like music. If you want to open a restaurant, and you want to think about yourself, ask this question. Why would everybody like your food? Because it’s like writing a book. Why would anybody read your book? Like making music – why would anybody listen to your music? Why are you so great? I think you have to be honest with yourself. 

Your Restaurant is the Best Restaurant Ever, Until You Open the Door

What’s crazy is – your restaurant is the best restaurant ever, until you open the door. And when you open the door, and Yelp starts coming in… It’s tough. You’ve got to be strong, mentally tough, and you’ve got to say “okay, we’re going to do this.” Run your team to win. On the flip side, you’ve got to be honest, and you’ve got to go “not everyone’s going to like me.” And that’s okay. 

Own It

When they don’t like you, try to fix it. Maybe you can, and maybe you can’t. If you go right now to our Google reviews, I can tell you that 99 percent of them have been responded to by me, personally. Every Google review, I respond to. That’s not somebody else responding, that’s Andy Husbands. It is important for me to know what people are saying. It’s important for me to interact with them. And when they don’t like it, they’ve had a bad experience, I’ll own it. Own your mistakes. Because you own your wins. When you get that Beard award, you’re like “woohoo, I got this because of me and my team!” But when you get that one-star review on Yelp or Google, you have to say, “I got this for me and my team!” You don’t get either-or. 

We All Make Mistakes

We all make mistakes; we’ve got to own them. Try to have more wins than losses. It’s what you need to do. Sometimes chefs get in their own way. We use a thing called Upserve. Love Upserve. They give you data on all your customers, through your credit card sales, through your POS. Likewise, they also do our processing. I can look at this thing called the magic quadrant. Not so much for my barbecue restaurant, but for my old restaurant. I could see dishes that people order, but don’t order again when they come back. Even though you may love it, that dish maybe needs to go. 

What you want is a dish that people come back for. That’s what you need to understand, is that just because someone ordered it, it means you wrote a marketable menu, that’s all that means. If they order it again, if they order it multiple times, then you’ve got something. 

That’s the same thing with you guys [Winston]. You guys have a good pitch. You pitched me at that Sleep No More thing, and talked about it, and I’m like “okay, good pitch.” And you brought me down there – great. But unless it really worked, and I really liked it, I’m not going to order another one. I keep ordering more CVaps.

Talk a little bit about CVap. Why do you think it’s good? What has it done for your business?

It changes the rules. I know it helps on labor. It helps on cooking. The style of restaurant that I do doesn’t use CVap to 100 percent advantage, like Tony Maws when he had Kirkland Tap & Trotter. He would take a whole pork loin, a marinated bone-in pork loin, and hold it in a CVap at about 130°F. Pop off a double chop, grill, and out it goes. 

What does that save? Time, which is table turns. Labor, because it doesn’t take that long to cook it. And my understanding is it shrank 7%, instead of 14%. Over years those little percentages, they do add up.

A Just-Cooked Barbecue Experience

Now for Smoke Shop, what it does for us is it enables us to offer a just-cooked experience. That is really what we want to have. You know, as a pit master who comes from the competition area, we are cooking it, we are timing it, and we are serving. And we’re cutting those ribs, and we’re giving them that just-cooked experience, besides all the other junk that we’re doing with it, but that’s what we’re doing, right? 

There’s no better barbecue than the barbecue that’s pulled out of my pit and rested. And then served. That is what, with CVap, we’re able to do, with the level of browning, we’re able to keep that crust on the outside. The salty, peppery, sweet, whatever rub we’re using. Yet keep that meat so juicy and perfect, that it’s that just-cooked experience. By the way, if you use that tagline, I want some points on it. That is pure gold I just came up with right there. CVap, the just-cooked experience.

What does Chris Hart think about the barbecue coming out of a CVap?

He believes in it. Both he and I have talked about owning a barbecue restaurant. Before I found out about CVap, I don’t know how long you’ve been around, but I was like “meh, I don’t want to do it, because I don’t want to have some silly barbecue coming out all dry, out of some silly hot hold thing with a water pan at the bottom that just like, pfft, comes up from the bottom [waves hands and fingers to imitate steam rising]. But he loves it. He comes in and checks us out all the time. 

You guys must be a major thing in the barbecue world. Everywhere I go, it’s mainly CVaps being used. I think people who know are fans. The people who need to know about it is burgers. That’s the number one thing people order. We know this. Anyone who’s serving lots of burgers should have a CVap full of just 120°F burgers. Sear it, out it goes.

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Part Three: Chef Andy Husbands-Moving on to the Next Thing

The Smoke Shop is one of Andy Husbands' latest concepts.

Read all parts in this series: Part One | Part TwoPart Four

We asked Chef Andy Husbands about his decision to close Tremont 647 and move on to his next project.

So, I’m about 20 years into my old restaurant. I knew I wanted to do something different. It wasn’t that I wanted to reinvent myself. You know, try doing anything for 20 years. It was time. Five years ago, me and this guy partnered, and we were like, let’s do something together. We both admired each other, and had different strengths and skills. Originally we were thinking about doing a Japanese Izakaya. I love Japanese Izakaya, that’s what I’m going to do. It begs the question – what do you know about izakaya? About this much [holds thumb and index finger an inch apart]. I could make a couple dishes. There’s a lot of history and knowledge that you have to have. And time to learn. 

My partner looked at me and was like “why are we not doing barbecue?” And I was like “I have never thought about opening a barbecue restaurant. Give me a couple days, let me do some research. Let me think about this.” And I came back, and I was like “I think I want to do it.” I didn’t want to…don’t know how to say this…I didn’t want to shit where I eat. My love of barbecue is so deep. I didn’t want to make it just a thing. Really wanted it to be special.

I didn’t want to do something I wasn’t passionate about. Just because I am passionate about izakaya, it just doesn’t mean I can cook it. I’m very passionate about barbecue. And I have been successful at it, and so, that’s how I get here. We knew we wanted to open up multiple units. And so now we’re working on our fourth unit. We couldn’t be prouder. It’s certainly a challenge every day, but, you know, that’s how you get here.

It makes it hard when you’re passionate. You’re not too easy on yourself, are you?

I tried to explain to my younger employees that nobody’s telling me to go to work. I don’t have a schedule. And that’s a place that you earn, and you get to. It’s a passion. More than just barbecue. When I talk about barbecue, to be clear, I’m not just talking about smoking meats. I’m talking about hospitality, about a way of life. Barbecue is a noun, right? Not just a verb. It’s an event. I just love the process.

Andy Husbands' restaurant is a barbecue lover's dream

Focusing on Childhood Hunger

Tell me some of your thoughts about charity. You probably get ten asks a day. How do you determine what to support? How to support? And on the other side, what kind of support are you getting now that you’re in need?

Wow. Let me answer the latter question. A lot of the people who we’ve helped throughout the years have bought gift cards and helped promote us in different ways. Just because they’re charities, they don’t necessarily have any money either. They’ve been giving us a lot of support, promoting us, things like that. We’re always thankful for that partnership.

In the very beginning, I had partnered with Share Our Strength, which their hashtag is #nokidhungry. It made sense to me. I come from a family that was federally assisted at some point. Had the cheap school lunch. And I just think it’s important to give back. 

I think giving back in a food-hospitality way makes sense to me. Other people focus on diabetes or cancer, and I think that’s really great. The thing is restaurants are more than food. They are the neighborhood living room. They’re a place of celebration, of gathering. It’s important to recognize that, and to give back in that way. 

I think it just ties together; it just makes a good puzzle piece that just goes together. So, for me, childhood hunger is something I’ve been focused on, even more so now that I’m a father. Tremont 467 donated over a quarter million, in cash, in the 20 years it was open. I’m very proud of that. It’s a team effort. 

When people are asking us, pre-COVID, post-COVID, to donate, we have the things that we focus on, which are really charities for children. I’m also a member of the Rodman Celebration, which is about children’s charities. So that’s our focus. It’s nice that we’ve aligned with that. It also enables us to say “no, “thank you for the ask, ask us next year. But just so you know, this is what we do.” We’re known for donating and being active. And it makes us able to say no. Look, I can’t support every charity. I would love to, but we have a business to run.

Can-Do and Cashflow

You’ve mentioned encountering challenges over your career. Which did you find the most challenging, and what did you learn from them? You’re here, 30 years in the business, quite successful. That’s not easy to do.

I think you have to have a positive, Can-Do attitude. That’s how I get through life. I think the biggest thing I’ve had to learn, which has to do with all the things I’ve talked about, 9/11, the bombings, COVID, my one piece of advice is cash flow. Understand cash flow. 

You often hear, these guys in music, they have a big single in music, they think they’re the cat’s meow. They think they’re going to have this money, and have this money forever. That is a rare, rare day. Same with restaurants. 

There are some restaurants that just print money all day long. But most restaurants have a cycle. And even the ones that print money have a cycle. They all have a cycle. In New England, at least for us, this is a normal time. We’re doing great, we’re doing great, spring and summer, it’s barbecue season. And fall’s doing pretty good. It slows down a little bit in winter. Slows down a lot in the deep winter, in January.

So, you need to plan this stuff out, just like you do at home. Don’t spend when you don’t need to. Put cash aside. And for me, what I did at my restaurant is, I got ahead of my bills. Say I had 30 days to pay on something, I would pay in 15 days, try to keep everything at ten to 15 days – still having that 30 days available to me so if things got tight I could stretch a little bit. Above all, that’s probably one of the most important things I ever learned was cash flow. It’s something people don’t talk about in a restaurant, at all. It’s so important.

Read Chef Andy Husbands | Part Four: Advice for Beginners, and Responding to Comments

Follow The Smoke Shop BBQ

Part One: Facing the Latest Challenge

The Smoke Shop barbecue restaurant

Read all parts in this series: Part Two | Part Three | Part Four

Andy Husbands is an accomplished Boston chef. Born in Seattle, Washington, he moved to Massachusetts with his father in 1984. He’s probably best known for his restaurant Tremont 647, a South End fixture from 1996 to 2018. He shuttered that restaurant to focus on his new barbecue concept, The Smoke Shop (which has three locations; in Cambridge, Boston’s Seaport, and one in Sommerville. A fourth is under construction in Harvard Square).

Andy has spent over 20 years on the competitive barbecue circuit (as a member of the IQUE BBQ team, winner of the 2009 Jack Daniels Invitational World BBQ Championships), and has earned national recognition, including appearances on The Food Network, and being named the 2014 Massachusetts Restaurant Association’s Chef of the Year. He’s also authored five cookbooks, including his latest, Pitmaster (co-written with Chris Hart).

When we spoke with Andy, the US was several months into the COVID-19 pandemic, which was (and still is) having a massive impact on the entire restaurant industry. We asked him how his business was weathering the storm.

How’s your business? How are things in Boston, with all this craziness?

Things in Boston are interesting. I’m one of those positive guys, so I’m not going to be asking, begging for help. That’s just not how I do it. I put my head down and work. But things are okay. I’ve got a great business partner, and we feel pretty strongly that we’re going to survive; we’re going to be okay. And we’re looking toward the future. We are actually starting construction on a new place. Business-wise, we’re about 40 to 50 percent. For us, it’s going to be all about labor, and managing labor.

I’ve been through a lot. Nothing this bad, but I’ve been through 9/11, I’ve been through 2008 [the Great Recession], the Marathon bombings, and ten feet of snow in the winter. What you do is you circle the wagons. You make sure you have your key players in place. Make sure you’re taking care of your team as best you can. You’re just defending what you have. And that’s what we’re doing. So, you know, it’s going okay. We have lots of happy customers. Instead of serving the 3,000 people each location would serve in a week, now we’re serving about 1,000 to 1,500.

Chef Andy Husbands is a barbecue pitmaster

Is the majority of that curbside and carryout, or are people actually coming in now?

A fair amount is curbside, carryout, third-party delivery, and catering. When I say catering, it’s not like the old days. It’s parties of ten, parties of 15, people getting together. A lot of patio. We’ve been really lucky. In Cambridge, Sommerville, and Boston, where we are located, everybody’s let us expand our patios, or even have a patio – in the Boston case, they gave us some parking spots. I hope they let us do that every year. It’s awesome. So, you know, just kind of getting through, being as creative as possible. I’m working on a class I’m teaching this Sunday. Looking at different revenue streams, just figuring out what’s best for us.

How’d you get to where you are? Like you’ve told us, you’ve dealt with 2008, 9/11, now COVID. How’d it all start, and how’d you get to where you are today?

“As I look back on my life…., in fourth grade, I did a demo on how to make doughnuts. One day, I was at home. I was, what they called back then, a latchkey kid. So, I was home alone. I’d come home from school; I’d be home alone. I wanted to learn how to make doughnuts. So I picked up The Joy of Cooking, and I did it. It does beg the question, what adult lets their kid work with hot oil? But I just did it. I just always loved to cook. I like the process, and I loved seeing people enjoy it. To me, that was something that I always had. That’s fourth grade.

Fast forward to when I was 14. I’d moved out east. I wanted to get a job, and my first job was in a bakery. It happened to be down the street. I was a baker’s assistant, which meant I did a lot of cleaning. But he’d let me scale stuff out, measure everything. He eventually taught me how to make bread…taught me how to do all this stuff. Which was great, because when I went to culinary school, I already knew how to do it, so I only had to learn the why, instead of the how. I knew how to feel it. When you make a lot of bread, you just know how it should feel.

I worked in a lot of other restaurants until I went to culinary school. I wasn’t the best high school student, mentally. But I loved to work, and so, Johnson & Wales accepted me. I couldn’t believe it. And believe it or not, I was a straight-A student. Not just in the culinary. I got a bachelor’s in foodservice management. I just loved this business.

What’s really great about it, fast forward to today, is that this business changes. What I did in my early 20s is not what I do now. People say, “oh, you must be working all the time.” And I’m like “yeah, sort of, but it’s not a physical as it used to be.” It’s not the intensity of a line cook. It’s like football – you can’t keep that up for 15 years.

Read Part Two: Experience is the Best Teacher

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CVap Sous Vide Barbecue, Sort Of!

smoked bbq ribs

As the weather heats up, many folks begin daydreaming about barbecue, but not just any barbecue, sous vide barbecue. May is National BBQ Month – an entire month focusing on the delicious ways we’ve discovered to make proteins their savory, smoky best.

Barbecue has been a frequent topic in our blogs, for a couple of reasons. First (obviously) is that barbecue is freakin’ delicious. But another huge reason is how perfect CVap® Staging technology is at bringing the lip-smacking best out of barbecued meats and veggies. I’m amazed (but not surprised) at just how many calls we get at Winston asking about how to prepare a barbecue in CVap. (For a quick, quirky video about CVap® Staging and sous vide, click here).

Sous Vide Barbecue or Smoked

CVap technology positively impacts your BBQ recipes in many ways. Cook amazingly tender briskets in a CVap Cook & Hold. Add a Winston Smoker Box to your CVap Holding Cabinet to smoke bodacious Boston butts in a CVap holding cabinet. You can even Sous-Vide-Que your ribs using the method outlined on the Amazing ribs website. In our most recent BBQ test, we prepared baby back ribs using two different methods of “sous vide” – bagged and bagless, simultaneously in the same unit, our new CVap RTV5-05 Retherm Oven.

Ingredients

 

Procedure

  1. Remove membrane from ribs and rinse.
  2. Rub mustard on all sides of the ribs.
  3. Liberally sprinkle Memphis Dust on all sides of ribs.
  4. Weigh each slab of ribs.
  5.  

Smoking and Sealing

First, smoke the ribs in preheated CVap Holding Cabinet to 170°F food temp and 170°F air with smoker box set for two hours. In this case, we used hickory chips.

Next, vacuum seal three slabs of ribs in a vacuum sealer, using high temp bags.

Then, allow ribs to rest in the refrigerator for a minimum of six hours.

  1. Preheat CVap RTV5-05UV to 190°F water temperature and 240°F air temperature.
  2. Place prepared ribs into oven and cook until ribs reach 203°F.
  3. Remove ribs and weigh for yield.
  4. If preferred, place on grill and crisp, then finish with another dusting of Memphis Dust.
 
 Weight InWeight OutYieldTime to End PointEnd Point
Vacuum Sealed3.607 kg3.207 kg88%2 hours, 23 mins203.1°F
Bagless3.087 kg2.657 kg86%3 hours, 10 mins201.7°F

Observations

  1. Ribs that were vacuum-sealed in the traditional sous vide style cooked more quickly and had a slightly higher yield.
  2. Both ribs were highly acceptable relative to taste, tenderness, and juiciness.
  3. Ribs cooked in the bag were slightly more tender; ribs cooked bagless were slightly more toothsome.
  4. The ribs cooked in the bag had a less-defined outer bark and more of a wet finish.
  5. Ribs cooked bagless in CVap had better bark and a more defined rub taste.
Soon, we plan to attempt to duplicate Amazing Ribs Sous vide Que. CVap® Staging is a revolutionary process that brings food to a precise temperature and keeps it there, for a quick finish on a grill, griddle, or fryer. Traditionally slow foods can be served in a flash. Think sous vide, but don’t think you have to use the bags if you don’t want. It’s your call!

Caracas BBQ Smokehouse

Caracas BBQ Smokehouse in Venezuela

Caracas BBQ Smokehouse

Caracas BBQ Smokehouse is a well-established pizza chain in Venezuela. Co-founder and co-director Alejandro Diaz Siso understands good equipment and good partners are key to being successful. In this video he describes the equipment they use to prepare their American smoked barbecue. Key among them are CVap® Holding Cabinets, where they can stage smoked proteins with consistent quality.

Winston Smoker Box

smoker box

Convert your CVap® oven into the smoker of your dreams with a Winston Smoker Box! It allows up to six hours of continuous smoking to create tender meats with that smoky flavor your customers love. Consequently, smoke without the expense of another piece of equipment! Add delicious smoke flavor to any grilled meal. You can use wood chips or pellets. Infuse your food with a hint of hickory, apple, oak, or cherry wood.

Great for more than just protein! Add veggies or herbs to your smoker to create amazing flavor throughout your menu.

The Winston Smoker Box is a must-have with easy installation onto the CVap Cook and Hold Oven or Retherm Oven.

There are a couple of things to keep in mind if you’re considering adding the smoker box. It does require an independent 120V power supply. Critically, utilizing the Winston smoker will require placing the oven under a vent hood.

Purchase yours here: PS3145 Winston Smoker Box.

smoker box meat

CVap Smoked Ribs on a Green Egg

Ribs smoked on a Green Egg and finished in a CVap oven

Ribs on a Green Egg are fall off the bone, full of texture with every bite. Baby back or St. Louis Style? Dry rub? Sauced? Grilled, baked, boiled – don’t even go there! Everyone has an opinion on how they like their ribs. My favorite recipe involves a wood smoker and CVap® cooking. It’s a combination of techniques that I am proud to share.

I have tried making my own rub and tried store-bought. My go-to is Meathead Memphis Rub and it will make your ribs OUT OF THIS WORLD! I started using this dry rub a few years back and haven’t changed since.

Next, go with your favorite rib, I’m using St. Louis style. Trim excess fat and shiny membrane from the back. Using a paper towel to pull off the silver skin makes the job easier.

After that, generously cover with Meathead Memphis Rub.

Start your smoker!

I’m using a Big Green Egg. Light high-quality lump charcoal and bring the smoker to 225-250°F. For this recipe, I like a mix of hickory and applewood. Add whichever wood chunks you prefer and let’s get smokin!

Once smoke is billowing out, add the ribs. Cook for 2.2 hours on the smoker. Add wood chunks as necessary.

I have found that smoking ribs on a Green Egg for four hours can result in dry ribs. After smoking, I moved them to a CVap Cook and Hold Oven for the perfect balance of smoke, bite, and tenderness. Cook in the CVap oven for 1.5 – 2 hours at 180 degrees Food Temperature and +40 Food Texture (Browning). CVap has the ability to precisely finish cooking. You’ll have tender moist ribs, still with a little bite. YUM!

After CVap cooking, place the ribs on foil, top with a drizzle of local honey and a few tablespoons of butter. Put back on 350°F grill to heat through and to melt the butter and honey. Serve immediately. If you like sauce, sauce on the grill, flip, and sauce on another side.

If you want to serve the next day, after CVap, chill and reheat the next day following the above grill instructions.

We are here to please all smoked ribs lovers!

ribs smoking on a Big Green Egg